The BR Shooting Journal 2008 Range Report

Sighted in my scoped SingleSix

2008-10-05T17:23:00.000-07:00

Today sighted in the Ruger SingleSix 17HMR with the BSA scope. I guess with scopes you get what you pay for and this scope isn't good (and I don't care what the reviews I've read say). It's dark, the crosshairs are hard to see, it's not really clear at longer ranges and the field of view is narrow. It's not my eyes because I have a Banner Day/Night on the Henry Varmint Express and I've never had a complaint about it. It also isn't thumb adjustable so you have to bring a screwdriver to rotate the adjustments. What's up with that?! I ended up shooting about 100 rounds and my group sizes stayed within a couple of inches with an occasional flier. No misfires out of 2 boxes, which was strange considering how many I had when I first took the gun to the range. It must have been a break-in issue or bad ammo. Once again I used CCI TNT. The revolver really does shoot like a rifle with the scope mounted (though it is touchier and not as solid), and would shoot much better with a good scope. It required a few clicks up and to the left and my results were 'good enough for now'. This indoor range is expensive so I wanted to be out by the end of my hour, so I'll zero in the SingleSix better at the state range in coming weeks.

TAKE NOTE that I had the revolver's trigger guard resting on my wooden shooting rest that my buddy Bill made me last year. The stand had a solidly glued strip of felt on the slightly V- shaped rest area. After the second shot, the felt blew off and went flying into the next shooting station. Don't think you can be careless just because you are shooting a small caliber firearm like 17HMR. It can do a lot of damage if your hands are in the wrong place.

B-Square Scope Mount for Ruger Single Six

2008-09-15T17:12:00.000-07:00

THE INSTALLATION KIT IS SIMPLE: THE SCOPE MOUNT, TWO SCREWS, AN ALLEN WRENCH AND BASIC INSTRUCTIONS

If you read yesterday's post on the 2008 Range Report page, you've read that I shot the Single Six at the range yesterday. The results weren't all that bad, but the stock iron sights just don't cut it with this precision caliber. When you look down the barrel of the gun, it's like putting the bulls eye on a 2x4. It's really impossible to be accurate, and accuracy is essential when small game hunting. A 17HMR demands a sighting system that does the cartridge justice, and that means mounting a scope.

B-Square surprised me today with a package containing their scope mount for the Ruger 17HMR Single Six. This is without a doubt the nicest design I have yet to see in a scope mount for this revolver, and it requires no gunsmithing. It literally took me less than 10 minutes to install, and if you've previously disassembled your rear sight, it will likely only take you five.

FRONT AND REAR SCREWS

As you can see from these photo, the mount runs from the rear of the gun to the muzzle. The dovetail base fits the gun so perfectly that people will think it's part of the gun instead of an add-on. To install the mount, simply remove 2 screws; one holds the front and the other the rear sight. The screws on my Ruger came right out without a bit of force. If you look closely at the rear sight, there's a tiny pin that the sight swivels up and down on. I took an ice pick and it pushed right out. After that the sight simply lifts off. Be careful not to loose the tiny spring and that small pin. I keep a bunch of tiny plastic bags that people store stamps in for such items.

Once the stock sights are removed, the mount simply drops into place. It comes with 2 screws and an Allen wrench. Note that the screws are slightly different in size. The smaller screw goes in the rear hole. Partially screw in both screws, then tighten them up. I added a bit of LockTite to the treads prior to tightening the screws down. That's it! When I first attempted to remove the rear sight, I didn't see that tiny pin, so I took out the manual and looked at the exploded view. There was the pin. If I knew enough to remove it, the installation would have taken 5 minutes. It really couldn't be easier in my opinion.

I think you'll agree that the photos I took tonight show that the mount looks awesome on this wheelgun. My next step is to shop for a scope. I'm really looking forward to trying this 17HMR out on some squirrels! From what I've read, with a scope attached this revolver shoots like a rifle. Check back for info on mounting the scope, using a LaserLyte bore sighter to get it on paper and the final sighting in at the range.

CLICK HERE FOR ORDERING INFORMATION

17HMR CCI TNT in my Ruger SingleSix and Henry Varment Express

2008-09-14T18:28:00.000-07:00

If you read Saturday's post in my hunting page, you'll read that I had 2 misfires with the Varmint Express using CCI TNT ammo. This isn't a firearm issue because the misfires were consistent at the range in all 3 of my 17HMRs. Today I took the Varmint Express and SingleSix revolver to the range to keep an accurate count of the misfires. As Murphy would have it, I shot 250 rounds without a single misfire. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining. My only conclusion is that I had a few bad boxes of ammo. I'm going to write CCI about this tomorrow and see how they respond.

I had a couple ridiculous misses on Saturday as well. These were shots at about 35 yards where I was braced against a tree with the crosshairs on non-moving squirrels. Today I took the 17HMR to the range to check the scope. I was a few clicks off, but not enough to miss those targets. Once adjusted, I noticed that I'd get 3 shots almost in the same hole, then one about 2-3" to the lower left. This was happening repeatedly and the flier was always to the lower left. I added a shim the front of my scope mount when I first mounted the scope using my LaserLyte bore laser. When I originally finished sighting in the rifle at the range, I felt that I had to over adjust the scope to get on target, but I didn't have time to pull the scope off and add another shim. I really should have but I would have missed the following Saturday's hunt.

After having this happen repeatedly today, I backed off my scope adjustment a few clicks which should have moved my hits to the upper right of the 'X' ring. I was surprised that it didn't, and with the next 50 rounds I was able to consistently hit a series of black chipping dots the size of a nickle without a single miss. This is something you should keep in mind if you are having consistency problems. Be sure that you aren't over adjusting your scope when you should have added a shim or bought another set of scope rings.

Next I moved the target stand in from 50 yards to about 25 to check the sights on the revolver. Again, there wasn't a single misfire and I was able to keep most of my hits within the 2 center rings. I'm sure the groups would have been even better if the iron sights were designed for precision shooting. The stock sights on this revolver are exactly the same as those on my mid-70's model SingleSix 22LR/22Mag convertible. The difference is that the 17HMR model uses a much more accurate cartridge than either of these 22 calibers. Ruger should have refined the sighting system to match the precision of the caliber, but I think they left it the same to maintain the gun's classic look.

In conclusion, the CCI ammo shot well as did both firearms. I know I missed 6 squirrels yesterday due to 2 misfires, 2 fliers, and twice my glasses fogged up blinding me. I think I have the first two issue solved. Now I have to deal with the glasses...

Sighting in the 10/22 with a LaserLyte LBS Kryptonyte laser and putting the finishing touches on my Varmint Express for opening day of squirrel season

2008-08-31T18:01:00.000-07:00

Tomorrow is the day that we've all been waiting for; opening day of squirrel season. To get ready for tomorrow morning, my son and I headed out to the range to fine tune our rifles. Jamie will be hunting with my Ruger 10/22 and I'll be carrying my new Henry 17HMR Varmint Express. LaserLyte sent me a fantastic green laser to try out and it just worked amazingly well. This laser is called the LBS Kryptonyte laser (for obvious reasons) and unlike the red lasers that I've been using, this laser can be seen in daylight without the need for a reflector. I tested it out in the Ruger since the smallest caliber the LBS can fit is 22. I would have really liked to try this on my new Henry 17, but the rod that fits the barrel has such a small diameter in the 17 version that the unit becomes fragile and doesn't lend itself to the larger calibers which this unit can fit.

I screwed the fitting into the end of the laser before we left for the range with the tiny allen wrench which is provided in the kit, so all Jamie needed to do was to slide it into the barrel and rotate it clockwise to snug it in. Then it's just a matter of aiming at a target and adjusting your scope to center the green dot in the crosshairs. It literally takes only seconds. After removing the laser, it took Jamie about 10 rounds to get the Ruger shooting dead nuts. Gone are the days of shooting box after box of ammo to get our rifles sighted in. These units pay for themselves very quickly considering the rising price of ammo. The green laser is a bit more expensive than the red, but I think it is well worth it. The unit itself is somewhat bigger and more solid looking than the red laser unit, so I think it will stay accurate longer.

Last week I used my LaserLyte red laser to sight in my Henry 17HMR Varmint Express. Today I wanted to refine my scope settings for tomorrow's hunt and by the time I was through, I can honestly say that this rifle shoots as well or better than my Henry 17HMR Golden Boy. Jamie was having fun filling the brim with lead and shaking the table in the process. The guy at my left was shooting a 45 so I had to try and sneak in a shot between there rounds when the table settled down. When I was able to get off a shot during the seconds when things were calm, I was landing every shot near dead center of the black dots. Not bad at all for a lever action. Now if we can just find something to shoot at tomorrow, we should have a blast. Best of luck to all my hunting buddies who will be hitting the fields as well. Send me photos and stories if you have some luck. Have fun and stay safe!

Sighting in the Henry Varmint Express

2008-08-24T15:17:00.000-07:00

My 17HMR Henry Varmint Express arrived yesterday, so I took the 'Dusk to Dawn' Banner scope off my Ruger 10/22 and put in on the Henry's cantilever scope mount. I didn't have a range reservation, so I took a trip to the range today in hope that someone wouldn't show. I was in luck and I was able to shoot the VE for the first time.

I fired 200 rounds; 100 'CCI TNT' hollow point varmint cartridges (my standard round for the Golden Boy) and 100 rounds of 'Remington Premier Magnum Rimfire' with ballistic tips. I began shooting the Remington ammo and my past experience tells me this will be crap ammo like the other Remington cartridges I've shot. Their 22 rounds gum up my rifles with a wax coating that's on the cartridge, and I usually have numerous misfires. Accuracy stinks as well. The 38 Special ammo I shot in my snubby less than a month ago proved to be just as bad, having numerous misfires. The VE holds 11 rounds in the feeder tube, and out of the first 11 CCI rounds fired I had 2 misfires. The firing pin hits looked good, but no fire. In total I had about a half dozen misfires out of the 100 CCI rounds. I had a similar experience with the Remington ammo, but about half the number.

AMMO ACCURACY: The Remington ammo actually likes this rifle, and was so accurate that I hit the same hole in the target on numerous occasions. Most shots stayed within the area of a dime, and I bet that if the gun was clamped down it would have been dead on. The CCI ammo didn't shoot quite as well, with a spread of about 3". It seems that the more I shot, the tighter the groups became. The Remington was shooting about an inch higher and to the right of the CCI. Higher I can understand, but why to the right? I tried to set my scope to a happy medium because I'm not sure what ammo I'll be hunting with. By the time I fired 200 rounds, they were hitting close to the same spot, so I feel comfortable that if I aim at something next Monday (opening day of squirrel hunting), I'll hit it. Once the rifle is broken in I'll fine tune it again.

BALANCE: I fired 11 rounds from an unsupported standing position. The GoldenBoy balances perfectly under the receiver. In fact, I can basically hold the rifle with two fingers under the receiver when carrying it and when shouldered, only one finger under the receiver is required to balance it. The same isn't true for the varmint Express. I found myself putting my hand under the lever instead of the receiver to balance it. I thought the reason might be that the stock on the VE might be longer, so I put the rifles side by side and compared them. They are almost exactly the same in length, though their shapes differ a bit. Their triggers are equal distance from the end of the stocks. My conclusion is that the octagon barrel on the Golden Boy is so much heavier than the round VE barrel that it tips the rifle forward, actually creating a nice balance when shooting. If you put a GoldenBoy in a gun case and pick it up, the front is so heavy that it's almost impossible to carry by the strap. That isn't true of the VE. In fact, the large stock comb adds even more weight to the rear, which I'm guessing is why the center of gravity is so far rearward.

If I had to choose between the GoldenBoy and the Varmint Express.... tough choice. The GoldenBoy is balanced like a work of art. But last time I hunted I noticed that the sun off the brass looked like I was pointing a flashlight into the trees. I had to cover the receiver with my arm and hands while I walked. The Varmint Express is black. The stock on the Golden Boy is absolutely beautiful American Walnut. So beautiful that I'm sometimes afraid of scratching it when hunting. The VE is also America Walnut, but it's more functional with its checkered stock and a grain, color and finish that isn't as beautiful. The GoldenBoy isn't designed for a scope. The VE is, arriving with a cantalever scope mount and pre-drilled and tapped. The design of the VE's stock is also better suited for a scoped rifle.

MY RECOMMENDATION: Buy the Varmint Express if you are going to do hardcore small game hunting. It's less expensive, more functional and better designed for the job. If you want a beautiful gun that you can hunt small game with using iron sights, then the GoldenBoy is for you. Either way, they're both a great choice.

Sighting in the 10/22 and the Ruger SingleSix 17HMR

2008-08-17T12:35:00.000-07:00

This will be a quick report on my shoot today. Jamie and I hit the range for a couple of hours this afternoon. He sighted in my 10/22 for upcoming squirrel hunting and I sighted in the new Ruger SingleSix in 17HMR. I also fired 5 rounds with the 38 Special. Good +P ammo for the 38 runs a buck a round so I shoot it sparingly. Today I fired what I carry in the revolver, then proceeded to do the job of sighting in the SingleSix. Jamie's target was set at 50 yards, and at that range I rarely hit much of anything shooting double action in a standing position. I do like to at least fire 5 rounds from the 38 every time I hit the range just to stay in practice and to rotate the ammo. I walked up to the firing line, took my position and fired 5 quick rounds. When I had finished I had to do a double take when it registered that all the rounds were in a group not far north or the bullseye! I had reinstalled my larger Hogue grips and was shooting good COR-BON hollow point ammo, which I'm sure was the reason for the hits. After shooting the lousy Remington ammo a couple weeks ago and having multiple misfires and lousy scores, this was a pleasant surprise. My suggestion when you carry is to have COR-BON loaded in your weapon at all times. Five dollars is a small price to pay in exchange for your life. This stuff fires and goes where it is supposed to. What more can I ask?

The hot brass hit me in the neck and went right down the front of my shirt!

Jamie and I shared a bench and he was shooting to my left. I noticed that his shells would eject right at me, but since his 50 yard target was at the left and my 25 yard target was to the right, we couldn't switch. We made the best of it until he fired his FIRST round. The hot brass hit me in the neck and went right down the front of my shirt! What's the odds of that happening? I never realized how hot a 22LR shell casing could get. I quickly shook it out of my shirt and told Jamie to switch places. I had pulled the Bushnell scope off the 22 and replaced it with my old 4X BSA scope. I then used my LaserLite laser to get the rifle on paper for Jamie. Next week I will be switching the scope to a Henry Varmint Express (17HMR). Jamie had no trouble sighting in the BSA, and it should be fine for him over squirrel season since it's rare that I ever zoom over 4X with the 4-9X Bushnell. Any more magnification and target acquisition becomes too slow for squirrel hunting.

While Jamie was having fun with the 10/22, I fired 200 rounds through the Ruger revolver. I was amazed at the gun's accuracy at 25 yards. When I first bought the Ruger and took it to the range, it was shooting all over the place. One reason was that the stock sights stink (designed more for belly shots than precision 17HMR shooting) and in a dark indoor range, I had difficulty seeing the front sight (which should be white instead of black). With a 6.5" barrel you don't have to be off much to be way off. Today I was consistently hitting a small rifle target that was about the size of a chuck's head. It took me awhile to get there, but by the time I left I felt comfortable taking this gun hunting. I would love to see what it could do if it was locked into position because I have a feeling that any error was due to me and not the Ruger.

First few hours with the 17HMR Ruger SingleSix

2008-08-05T17:19:00.000-07:00

As soon as work was over today I rushed to the gun shop to finalized the purchase of my new Ruger SingleSix 17HMR revolver. I sold the 22LR/22Mag version that I bought from my brother earlier this year to one of my friends for what I paid for it. It's a great revolver but since I can't use the magnum cylinder on state land, I wasn't getting the firepower I needed. The 17HMR cartridge is straight shooting and fast, as my Henry 17HMR lever rifle proved this year. When you are shooting through a 6.5" barrel, you need all the velocity you can get out of your cartridge. A 22LR just wasn't cutting it. The 17HMR cartridge has the same velocity at 100 yards and a 22LR does at the muzzle... and my ears are now ringing to prove it. I'll start wearing my ProEars in the field as soon as the temperature cools down a bit.

I drove home as soon as I got my hands on the 17, quickly ran a bore snake through it, stuck my LaserLyte into the barrel and gave it a fast check to verify the sight alignment. It didn't look bad, so I headed out to the field with two hours left till sunset.

On my first lap through the fields I spotted a chuck about 50 yards out. I didn't want to miss my opportunity to take a crack at it so I aimed and fired two rounds from a standing position with nothing to support myself against; a big mistake. I missed both times. Over the next hour I almost stepped on small deer on three occasions, which is always fun to do. When I got home I put the laser in the barrel and this time I really looked at it. I was shooting about 5 clicks of the rear sight screw to the right, which looks to be about about 4" at 25 yards. Who knows? I might have hit it if my sights were on. This chuck was in a new location, which is always a good sign.

The Ruger looks and feels exactly like the one built in the early 70's. I'm amazed that they made so few changes in over 30 years. I believe my 22 model was the first year of Ruger's 'New Model' SingleSixs. I felt right at home with the new single action wheelgun, and I'm looking forward to using it as a primary weapon against the chucks.

Father's Day Blast'n with Jamie

2008-06-15T12:28:00.000-07:00

I'm amazed at how well Jamie handled this .38 snubby

Today is Father's Day and my 14 year old son Jamie and I hit the range right after church. Jamie hasn't gone out shooting since he got his hunting license two years ago, so this was a special occasion. I could tell he was a bit apprehensive since he had never shot these firearms, but it didn't take long for him to warm up to them. I started him out with the Ruger 10/22, then switched him to the Ruger SingleSix with 22LR, and lastly the 22 magnum. We shot for a solid 2 hours and had a great time. Hope you had as much fun this Father's Day as we did.

Note that prior shooting, Jamie and I went over the gun safety rules and that was followed by a safety talk by the range officers. I reminded Jamie to keep his finger off the trigger at all times until are ready to fire. Keep the muzzle pointed down range at all times. Stand perpendicular to the line of fire when loading and unloading the revolvers in order to always keep the muzzle pointed down range, etc. Safety should always be first. I also had him put plugs in his ears with the ProEars on top. The ProEars amplify the non-dangerous frequencies so Jamie was able to clearly hear my instructions while blocking out the damaging sounds of the gunfire.

Ruger 10/22

Ruger SingleSix firing 22LR

Ruger SingleSix firing 22Mag

If you are wondering if allowing a minor to shoot a handgun in CT is legal, read the following:

Handgun Transfers to Minors

"The law bars transfer of handguns to people under age 21, except for temporary transfers at a target shooting or firing range, provided use is under the immediate supervision of a person eligible to possess handguns."

Here's a LINK to that information.

May 3rd shoot with Bill

2008-05-03T18:19:00.000-07:00

It was windy, cold and nasty out today, so Bill and I decided to skip our Saturday pre-range coyote hunt and go straight to the range at noon. It's been raining all week, so I can tell you with certainty that the WMAs are totally flooded. I brought my 22 revolver and Bill brought 2 22s. One rifle was given to him by his father-in-law and Bill had recently restored it. All Bill knows is that it's a GECO and that it's quite old. I Googled it tonight and discovered that it was likely made around 1919 in Germany. Some GECOs were made exclusively for US import to open trade between the US and Germany after WW1 since there was still hostility between the nations after the war. GECO also made training rifles for the Hitler youth, and from what I've read the company is still in business but only manufactures ammo. One thing about guns that most people don't realize is that they are truly a piece of history which you can hold in your hands. That's very cool.

Ammo Test

2008-03-15T17:16:00.000-07:00

(Continued from the 2008 HUNTING PAGE)
...In the afternoon I hit the indoor range for an hour with the Single Six. I limited myself to the 22 cal. cylinder, and fired at least a couple hundred rounds of various types of ammo; some at 25 ft and others at the far end of the range. This was not a scientific test by any means. I simply kneeled down, braced myself and fired. Here are my observations:

At 25 ft, the subsonic cartridges were the most accurate, with groups within a couple of inches. Both the Aquila Sniper SubSonic and the Remington LR Hollow Point SubSonic had similar groups. Considering the large 60 grain bullet size in the Aquila, that seems to be the way to got for close range small game. I'm sorry to say that these bullets don't feed well though the 10/22. The short cartridge means that the rifle must be manually cycled and the long bullet sometimes distorts in the magazine due to the spring tension. I can shoot basically anything through this single action pistol. It seemed that the faster the bullet, the worse the group at close range. The Aguila SuperExtra hollow point, which is my favorite 22 for my 10/22 didn't shoot as well as the SubSonic at 25 ft, but the groups were acceptable. CCI Quick-Shock Hypervelocity which go for over $5/box of 50 were all over the target. I found the same to be true when shooting them through my 10/22 at the outdoor range last year at 50 yards. They couldn't hold a candle to Aguila SuperExtra, so I won't buy them again. They do have the feature of segmenting into 3 parts upon impact, but if they miss the target, that doesn't help much.

The target was then moved out to about 40 yards. The subsonic cartridges still created decent groups, but the Aguila SuperExtra were a bit tighter. At that distance I'm guessing the penetration of the subsonic cartridges must be way down, so I think the standard hollow point cartridge would be superior. An observation regarding sound; The SubSonics were a bit (not a lot) quieter than the Long Rifle, and there wasn't a muzzle flash. The CCI shorts were much quieter than the SubSonic and surprisingly accurate at 25 ft. The problem that I see is that you rarely know when your shot will be closer than 25 ft, so I'd rather have a cartridge loaded that is a bit more flexible.

I also fired some junk ammo that had been hanging around since last year. It was Winchester LR and since I tossed the box, I don't have the specifics. Maybe it's Super XTRA. You can buy it at Wal-Mart for under $10 for 550 rounds. Don't let the name fool you. The Winchester that manufactures the rifles does not manufacture the ammo. First, the ammo didn't fit well in the chambers. One round had to be tossed because it wouldn't go in, and about half had to be forced into the chambers so the cylinder could be rotated. The accuracy was fair, but considering the problems inherent with hunting with a pistol, it's not worth shooting this stuff. Targets are difficult enough to hit without the ammo working against you. Also, it's slower to reload due to the poor sizing, so I recommend that you don't waste your money on this stuff unless you are just using it for plinking. A better choice would be a 550 box of Remington Golden Bullet, that is also carried by Wal-Mart and Caldor. The Winchesters also didn't shoot well through the Ruger 10/22 because the bullet loosens and often doesn't feed properly from the magazines. The winner to today's shoot was the Aguila SubSonic and its huge 60 grain bullet.

I noticed that the standard LR ammo seemed to shoot a bit low at close range, so tomorrow I'm going to buy a brick of Aguila Supermaximum Hyper Velocity 22LR because these bullets have a flatter trajectory. In other words, they hit at 100 yards at almost the same height as at 25. If I remember my Newton physics correctly, let's say that it took 1 second for a bullet to travel from your muzzle to the target. If you were to stand at your gun and drop a bullet at the same time you fired one, if that bullet dropped let's say 6" over that 1 second period, at 100 yards that bullet would also drop 6". If you could reduce the time it takes for the bullet to reach the target, let's say you cut the time in half to 3 seconds, that bullet dropped at your shooting bench might only drop 3" in 1/2 second, so the drop at 100 yards would also be 3". The faster you can get the bullet to the target, the less the drop (creating a flatter trajectory).

A TRAJECTORY CHART FROM FEDERAL'S WEB SITE

If you've sighted your gun in at 50 yards when the bullet hits 50 yards, you're actually shooting upward enough so that at the top of the trajectory curve, your bullet has dropped enough to hit the target. That means at 25 yards it should be shooting low, at 50 yards, right on, and at 100 yards, much lower since your speed is also now slowing down. A faster bullet will shoot flatter and create less of an arc, so you shouldn't see that much of a difference at various distances.

Here's a link to Federal's ballistics chart page that you'll find valuable.

Shooting at the indoor range

2008-03-03T17:15:00.000-08:00

I usually stay away from indoor ranges because I would rather shoot in the fresh air instead of in a noisy enclosed space, but we are getting 3 inches of rain today, which didn't leave me much choice. There is one real benefit to shooting indoors; your target travels on a wire so you don't have to wait for a ceasefire to check it. Just hit the switch and it comes zipping back to you. Very cool.

I took the Single Six and since this was my first time at this range except for my NRA pistol class, I had to read the rules and sign a waver. They also checked my pistol permit and gave me a card so I don't have to do this again for a year. The pistol fired 200 rounds flawlessly. Over that hour period I changed the cylinders twice, first firing 50 22LR rounds, then swapping it out with the 22 mag, firing 50 more followed by 100 rounds of LR. I was shooting Aguila .22 SuperExtra hollow points and CCI TNT 22 Magnum. At close range I was putting the LRs within a 3" circle and with the target set at the far end (see photo), I was hitting for the most part within a 5" circle. The LRs were hitting a bit high and the Magnums a little low. With either caliber I'm now confident enough to take a shot at a coyote, and that was the main reason I went out today; to check the sights and the groups. I was very happy with both.